Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. Nothing like on an ebike. Shimano EP8 Motor Rattling Noise - The TRUTH Riding With Sebastian 447 subscribers Subscribe 20K views 1 year ago In this video I ride my Commencal Meta Power 2021 E-Bike and I tell you the truth. When we see failures like this, it is incumbent on us to find the root cause and, if it is within our control, provide a resolution, reads e*thirteens statement. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? On top of that, Shimano also appears to be cool with brands building their bikes with non-Shimano batteries. For commercial info: info@eplus.bike. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? Instead, we recommend setting aside some time for a battery-drainer test ride, somewhere that is accessible and easy to ride out with a flat battery, in order to work out your maximum range you can get during typical riding conditions. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. The sign of a true technical rider. But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. Also did some trail work. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and your expectations of range and power output. Then we'll fix that for you. I feel like I've been missing out on so much! Was thinking the same thing. Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. This is because the assistance drops off quite quickly when you stop pedalling, particularly compared to the Bosch motor, which continues to push on for just a fraction longer. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. Alex Evans is BikeRadars senior mountain bike technical editor. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. With that said, all my riding is tough climbs and steep descents, without an e-bike would be walking up a bunch of it. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. Perfect? This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. Also worth noting is that you can create two riding profiles, which you can alternate between via the menu and push-button on the display. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. Already have an account with us? To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. That would be awesome to do laps on. We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. Specialized is close to this. I have ridden ebikes great fun,addictive, you gain some things , but lose some things as well, like all bikes a compromise. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. No, you're running the latest EP8. It was one of the most fun bikes to ride. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! What's your experience on this? There's 21-percent more torque (85 N/m total) in Trail and Boost modes. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. Shimano has put its long-running Steps E8000 format to pastor and heralds in its EP8 motor unit for 2021. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. Otherwise I do not care. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. @tomdesoals: Yeah, I get that now that bikes have become more silent anything new that makes noise can become annoying. The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. -- Wild Bill. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. Going the right direction in weight reduction. Stab happy!". Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. Weve found the first two settings to be too weak for e-MTB use, though conversely the highest setting can feel a little too peaky for some riders. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying Shimano says it provides up to 350-percent support (in Boost mode versus the E8000's 300 percent). Yeah but who needs all that power? My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. Can we get reviews this in depth for regular bikes? Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. As they say, power is nothing without control. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? Chuckle. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode. Don't take things too seriously just get out there and enjoy whatever you own and have FUN! Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. 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